Tuesday, September 1, 2009

Of Those Who Disagree...

There are those who think to challenge me with "ah, as i thought. you won't post any reply that object your opinion. clasic." Beyond the spelling mistakes and problem with the Shift key, the person, once again an "Anonymous," has a point. Do I want to post messages that contradict my own...well, who does? No, that's not a sufficient answer, because I have posted some, so let's look into it.

No, I don't want to post your message that says, "no, thanx. not interested." to my request that people join in a campaign to free Gilad Shalit. How anyone can justify what has been done to this boy is beyond me, beyond humanity. But then again, what was I thinking? It is obscene to put the words "Hamas" and "humanity" in the same sentence. Just as it is obscene not to demand Gilad Shalit be granted basic human rights.

He was 19 years old, a relatively new soldier in uniform, standing in our land, when he was attacked, beaten, dragged across the border and shoved down in some underground hiding place from which he has likely rarely been removed. Two other soldiers were killed in this unprovoked attack. It's been more than three years since Gilad has spoken to his parents; more than three years since he has been home.

He committed no crime, unlike the Palestinian prisoners whose freedom you demand (yet another comment, "bring palestinian prisoners home!"). He didn't attack anyone, infiltrate anywhere, terrorize any place. He fired no rockets, no missiles; he threw no firebombs. By international law, he has the right to see, at least, a Red Cross representative who can verify his condition and make sure his basic needs such as food and medicine are being met. Not once in three years has he been given this right. At the same time, those Palestinian prisoners have visits with their lawyers, their families. They can talk to them. They even have access to sun, recreation - some are even getting college degrees - can you imagine?

But let's move on because "Anonymous" has been busy (so busy, perhaps he/she/it forgot his/her/its name). Another comment said, "sorry, but what your son and other idf soldiers are donig won't bring the peace with palestinians. Remember latest war crimes from gaza?" I'll take the liberty of assuming you mean what the IDF is DOING, not donig and answer.

No, my son and the IDF are not committing war crimes. You say, in yet another post, that "palestinians have right to defend themselves, too. But you probably won't be brave enough to post this reply anyway... " (You really have to learn how to use the Shift key.)

So you were wrong, again. I was "brave" enough to post this. Once your son goes to war, you'll find you fear little else. Posting comments doesn't take bravery - it simply requires a decision. Do I have the energy to answer yet another attempt to blur the truth, or do I delete it and just leave it alone.

You caught me on a good day - I've decided to answer.

Yes, absolutely. The Palestinians do have a right to defend themselves. But so does Israel. Those so-called war crimes you are referring to are a perfect example of the self-defense you would deny to Israel. Understand - if you shoot thousands of rockets at a country, you have to be dumb, stupid, and about a dozen other adjectives I won't waste time writing, to think that the country won't respond back. And when they do, don't cry "war crimes" and "massacre." Neither of these things happened in Gaza (or Jenin several years ago when people like you used the same words back then). There was no massacre and there were no war crimes. The opposite is true. Israel went out of its way to avoid civilian casualties. I have a leaflet that Elie brought me that had blown with the wind from Gaza to his position (and yes, I realize that he was that close).

The leaflet was dropped - along with tens of thousands of others - warning the civilians. There are people shooting rockets from your area. Move, leave, get into a secure place because we have no choice but to stop the rockets. Dan Gillerman, our ambassador to the UN during the Second Lebanon War, said it beautifully, "When you sleep with a missile, sometimes you do not wake up in the morning."

Israel showed restraint in Gaza. That was, in my opinion, stupid. Yesterday, two rockets were fired at Israel from Gaza. Israel so far has done nothing. I think that is a mistake, and clearly, so do you. We too have a right, as you so clearly indicate, to defend ourselves and yet we didn't send two rockets flying towards some city in Gaza, did we?

You remind me of the little kid who goes up to the big kid and stomps on his foot, again and again. Finally, the big kid pushes the little kid away to make him stop, and everyone yells at the big kid. What, in God's name, WHAT did you think was going to happen when Hamas sent endless rockets into Israel? What do you think we are going to do if the Palestinians don't return Gilad Shalit and stop the latest round of increased rockets? My bet is that even now, Israel is formulating a plan to go back into Gaza. If one of those rockets hits a school or major commercial area...Israel will not have the luxury of restraint.

What is happening now, in the last few days, is clear. Hamas is sending more rockets, daring Israel to respond. More than any other signal we have, this shows that they fear a deal to trade Gilad and want to make sure it doesn't go through. They'll do this by shooting rockets at Israel, forcing Israel to respond. To them, it is a game. But the game they play, is over the heads of our civilians, at the expense of Gilad's life and his human rights. We all estimated the "relative" calm would be temporary. We knew that on January 18th, when we pulled out.

Of course, one could easily argue that a period of 226 days in which 239 rockets were fired is hardly "relative calm" but this seems to be an acceptable pace to the world. The world isn't upset if Gaza "only" fires one rocket a day...though hopefully we in Israel will soon send the message that even this is not acceptable.

Though Israel has not yet responded to yesterday's attacks, the day before yesterday, a rocket was also fired at our civilians. After that attack, Israel responded by hitting the launching point of the rocket, but not Palestinian cities. Of course, you don't see it that way, do you? You wrote, in yet another comment, "last attack on gaza was not self-defence, it was pure agression".

I didn't post it because I wasn't sure which "last attack on gaza" you were referring to. Of course, it really doesn't matter because all attacks on Gaza have been the RESULT of attacks on Israel. If you want to stop Palestinian suffering, the formula has been in front of you for the last 60 years. Stop the violence. Stop the terror. Stop the rockets. Stop the suicide attacks. Stop attacking and you will, miraculously, bring peace to the Middle East - faster than a bullet, faster than superman, even faster than Barak Hussein Obama, because the formula for peace has always, always been the same. Stop the war, and you'll have peace.

It may be a warm peace, a true peace, even a friendship, as Israel has with the United States. It might be a warm-ish peace, as we have with much of Europe. It might be a kind of peace, as we have with Jordan. It might be a cold peace, as we have with Egypt. It might simply be, for the first few years, simply a cessation of violence. But the amazing thing is that even with a cessation of violence, we can all live.

I was brave enough to post all your anonymous comments (even offered to correct the English on many of them). Now let's see how brave you are. Are you brave enough to demand peace from the Palestinians? Are you brave enough to demand that THEY stop attacking Israel? Are you brave enough to see that keeping a young man away from his family for three years is wrong and that Gilad should be home?

No, I don't expect that you are...after all, you weren't even brave enough to post your name, were you?

So Mr/Ms Anonymous, let me make it clear. Israel has the right to self-defense.

If you send rockets against our cities, we have the right to respond (and we will).

We have the right to hit Gaza for many reasons. Chief among them is the fact that Gaza freely elected their government of Hamas. They chose these people to represent them and polls show they overwhelmingly approve of Hamas firing rockets at Israel. Since our answering those rockets is a natural and proper response, I wonder if we could say the people of Gaza approve even of our operations there to stop the rocket fire? No, I guess that would not be a logical conclusion, but then again, logic has no say here, does it?

If it did, you would logically care about Gilad Shalit. You would logically understand why Israel has a right to defend itself against rocket attacks; and, you would logically understand that when Palestinians stop firing rockets, throwing firebombs and rocks at our civilian cars and buses, etc...then, and only then, can all the Middle East begin taking those first important steps to peace. But you aren't brave at all, are you?

No - it takes no bravery to shoot a rocket into a city; no bravery to throw rocks at cars as they zoom by. There is no bravery in throwing firebombs, walking onto a bus and exploding yourself. No...none.


Anonymous said...

War is ugly. Soldiers are killed and kidnapped and that is just life.

It would be best for the world if Israel peacefully dismantles itself. Not just, I know, but unfortunately the world needs oil and this oil guarantees the well-being of far more people than your one little Gilad Shalit.

Let Gilad Shalit come home to the US, or Canada, or even Eastern Europe where his roots are. Israel is a tribal settlement with no place in this modern world.

Ye'he Sh'mey Raba Mevorach said...

Look, anonymous. If Israel dismantles itself because there is violence here, what happens to all the other violent places in the world? Should certain African countries dismantle themselves? Do you always run away from problems instead of finding solutions?

And do you think that you will get your oil if you prove to the people who CONTROL the oil that they can demand human sacrifice to run your cars and generators, and create your plastics for you? How long do you think it will take for wars to be fought over oil, ugly, dirty and yes even nuclear wars, for oil?

Anonymous - you are looking for easy answers but you are not thinking far enough ahead with your suggestions.

Our sages teach: Who is wise? He who anticipates the consequences of his choices (lit. 'roeh et hanolad').

Go ahead, reward terror. See how far it gets towards the 'well-being of far more people than ... Gilad Shalit.'

A Soldier's Mother said...

Well, gee, anonymous - looks like you learned how to use the Shift key and have improved your spelling some...though clearly your logic is still lacking.

I have to admit that I am rarely someone who runs out of words, but this one got to me. Let me see, we should...what was the word...ah yes, "dismantle ourselves" because that would be better for the world. And we need to do this for oil.

Hmmm...why don't we just create new avenues of power. Solar and electricity. It would serve, justly, to wipe out world dependency on oil and improve the environment for all. Do you honestly think, even if Israel were destroyed, that there would be no more attacks like 9/11, like what happened in London, Madrid, Bali and elsewhere?

Seems a lot nicer than dismantling the homes of 7 million Israelis who have done nothing wrong.

As for Gilad Shalit...his roots are in Israel. He was born here and was serving his country when Hamas violated international law, infiltrated into Israel, kidnapped him, murdered two other soldiers, and dragged him across the border.

Perhaps we should consider dismantling Gaza? After all, what great inventions have come out of Gaza...can you name even one...other then perfecting suicide bombing?

Israel is at the forefront of medical research, technology. Drip irrigation, huge advances in science and technology. Your cellular phone, solar technology, water conservation. It seems we have more than pulled our weight in the world. We've offered aid around the world in the face of untold natural disasters...I don't remember ever hearing of any Palestinian aid teams...not a one.

Why, the very computer you probably used to type your hate-filled message was probably created, in part, in Israel. If you use a laptop, Microsoft Office, Intel chip - this is certainly true.

Israel's place in this modern world, as in the ancient one, remains in the same land. This is our homeland, the place where we were meant to be, by right, by might, and yes, by history.

WHEN Gilad comes home, it will be to the land of Israel...and really, thanks for the offer, but national suicide isn't in our future.

George said...


If Israel were to dismantle itself, that would just be rewarding violence which is never a good idea. And where do you suggest all the Israelis should go and live? I somehow don't think that the Arab countries would welcome an influx of nearly 4 million Jews. And another thing - who will pay for the relocation costs of 7 million people? You really haven't thought very hard about this, have you?
By the way, Gilad Shalit was born in Israel and he also holds French citizenship (not US, not Canadian and not of any East European country).

Shtuey said...

A.S.M.; one of the realities that I have had to face head on since Operation Cast Lead began is that the hatred of the Jewish people (as you know it is now fashionable to hide this behind hatred of Zionism, Israel, etc) is deep seeded and is not going anywhere.

I was very active in 2008 campaigning against Obama in our primaries, and the general election. When the dust from the election had settled, and OCL began, suddenly activists and bloggers I had worked with for nearly a year showed their hatred and racism, as well as their hypocrisy.

Code Pink, Human Rights This and That, Amnesty for Those We Like, etc all weep and don sackcloth and ashes for Arabs when Jews defend themselves, but are completely silent while rockets fall on Sderot, Ashkelon, Ashdod...

They even justify it by saying that the Hamas rockets aren't accurate...

When I think of the kassams I think back to my childhood, hearing stories from visiting Israeli family or speakers at our shul, about kids up north, just like me, spending their lives in bomb shelters. No one cared then, but Am Yisrael and no one but us cares now. And you know what? I'm okay with that. We don't have to justify Israel to anyone. We don't have to justify the existence of Am Yisrael to anyone. HaShem cares and we care and that's enough for me.

Those who curse us have always cursed us. This is nothing new under the sun. As I read this post I thought of the verse from Psalm 92 that we read on Shabbat:

אִישׁ-בַּעַר, לֹא יֵדָע; וּכְסִיל, לֹא-יָבִין אֶת-זֹאת.

Eretz Yisrael is our heart. It is our soul. Outsiders will never understand that. We are not obligated to convince them. We have something that anonymous does not.

צַדִּיק, כַּתָּמָר יִפְרָח; כְּאֶרֶז בַּלְּבָנוֹן יִשְׂגֶּה
שְׁתוּלִים, בְּבֵית יְהוָה; בְּחַצְרוֹת אֱלֹהֵינוּ יַפְרִיחוּ
עוֹד, יְנוּבוּן בְּשֵׂיבָה; דְּשֵׁנִים וְרַעֲנַנִּים יִהְיוּ
לְהַגִּיד, כִּי-יָשָׁר יְהוָה; צוּרִי, וְלֹא-עלתה (עַוְלָתָה) בּוֹ

To my mind that is our concern; not the foolish or the ignorant. Would it be nice to have the power to convince all the racist bigots of the world that we are just as entitled to human rights and freedom as anyone else? Of course. But that power does not rest with us. Our power is in living, in fighting when we must, and in the soul of Am Yisrael.

Anonymous is just that.

Shtuey said...

Wow, Hebrew characters do not come out well in the comments box I guess....

Anonymous said...

The other anonymous (I'm anonymous too because I haven't got a google account - call me southerncross) who wanted the Jewish state of Israel to dissolve itself...and then the terrorism will stop...was lying.

The Arab Muslims (and non-Arab Muslims who have been suckered into bowing down to the Arab Imperial Religion) hate Israel because they hate Jews. They hate Jews because Mohammed told them to hate Jews...way back in the 7th century when there was *no* Jewish state at all. Andrew Bostom's monumental anthology of Islamic texts, their classic interpretations, plus historical studies and testimony from Muslims and non-Muslims, shows beyond all doubt that hatred of Jews qua Jews is hard-wired into classical, traditional, mainstream Quran-Sira-Hadith Islam. Why else would ethnically Indian Pakistani Muslims single out, for such especially monstrous attentions, the tiny little Chabad family amidst a sea of polytheist Hindus in Mumbai?

The only way for Jews to stop Muslims hating them and wanting to kill or enslave them, is to become Muslims. But that means throwing over YHWH - the Holy One, loving, faithful, covenant-keeping - and becoming slaves to the lying, mass-murdering war-demon of the Arabs, who is called the 'greatest of deceivers', and 'the Harmer', amongst other things.

So long as *Islam* exists, the jihad against Israel - and against all Jews everywhere, and against all non-Muslim states and all non-Muslims everywhere - will continue. The sharia-pushers don't just want eretz Israel; they want *planet earth*. *Nothing* we do or do not do - short of our total capitulation, either by becoming Muslim or by consenting to become dhimmi Untermenschen - will satisfy the jihad gang bosses and sharia-pushers.

Anonymous said...

hi, i'm the other other anonymous :)

I think i must comment some issues here, Soldier's Mother, if you'll let me do it.

1.) Hamas may have violated international law (by kidnapping Shalit), but mentioning international law, israel is no better. There are many issues like occupation, illegal wall, illegal settlements etc. So there's no "angels" in this conflict.

2.) Back to your main post. You said: "And when they do, don't cry "war crimes" and "massacre." Neither of these things happened in Gaza." - how can you say that? Didn't you heard of Human Rights organisations (even Israeli ones) and AI reports? And what about those idf soldiers that admitted ugly war crimes (like using HUMAN SHIELDS, white phosphorous, "shoot first, ask second" policy etc)? Are they lying? I suggest to you to read one of their interviews...you'll be surprised.

Maybe it's just me, but i think you DON'T WANT TO believe that idf comitted those ugly crimes. Maybe because you were always told that it is moral army etc. And meybe because your son is a its soldier. Or are you just so strongly brainwashed that you automatically ignore all the reports that are critical to your country? I don't know.

3.) You said: "Israel went out of its way to avoid civilian casualties." - ok, you really must be brainwashed to claim that after all the reports and confessions we heard... I'm quite shocked... Sure, leaflets were dropped, but along with tons of bombs that destoroyed schools and civilian homes. Pls read some after-war reports.

4.)You said: "The Palestinians do have a right to defend themselves. But so does Israel" - I agree. But last Gaza war was NOT self-defence, it was aggresion. It was long planned operation intended to remove Hamas from Gaza.

5.)You said: "You remind me of the little kid who goes up to the big kid and stomps on his foot, again and again. Finally, the big kid pushes the little kid away to make him stop, and everyone yells at the big kid." - i'm sorry but IMO that's not the best possible example. Tell me how many israelis have killed Hamas rockets in last 7 years? You don't know? I tell you: less than 40. Now: how many palestinian civilians have been killed in last Israeli agression on Gaza? More than 500. Any idea why your example wasn't that good? Do the math.

6.) You said: "What do you think we are going to do if the Palestinians don't return Gilad Shalit and stop the latest round of increased rockets? My bet is that even now, Israel is formulating a plan to go back into Gaza. If one of those rockets hits a school or major commercial area...Israel will not have the luxury of restraint." - i think you're wrong. With Obama on watch, Israel won't dare to start another massacre or big scale operation. Hamas, on the other hand, won't fire many rockets because it is not ready for another war. Shalit will IMO be freed after Israel frees hundrets of Palstinian prisoners. That's my bet.

Let it be enough for now. Have a nice day!

Anonymous said...

oh, so you won't post my response? How nice of you. I guess you just don't have the answers for my points. I got it.


Anonymous said...

i knew you won't like my reply and thus will not post it, Soldier's Motha. It's pitty, though. Anyway, you're the boss on your blog... so please keep on posting only replies that share your opinions...


Anonymous said...

IDF is the most restrainded army in the world. They use tweezers to single out a specific building where they KNOW terrorists are located, or is the source of live fire. They even know the exact floor and room.

Like in all wars, accidents will happen. War is not humane.

Israel absolutely went out of it's way to avoid hitting civilians in the latest Gaza fighting. Leaflets were dropped an hour or two before attacking. SMS messages were sent to people's phones, and many people were called up warning them of the coming attack. What army does that?
There was a documentary about the special IDF unit who was responsible for this.

The fact that the kassam rockets are not accurate and do not cause alot of casualities is besides the point. Can you imagine some Mexican terrorist group throwing homemade rockets into Texas, demanding that the USA give Texas back to Mexico? Do you think the Americans would let this happen? The Hamas stations iself amongst the civilian population, like the true terrorists they are. To compare them to a soverign country and army is ridiculous. That is what the Goldstone report does, and this absurd. The IDF actually succeeds more often than not, to hit their terrorist target and not harm the civilians sitting next to them!

The Hamas hold their own people hostage. They commandered aid trucks that were allowed to enter Gaza from Israel during the fighting. They have a tough and cruel hold over their people. Abusing the poor state they live in, to convince them to join them in their acts of terror.

Please offer proof that IDF troops used human shields!!

There was an explanation about the white phosphorus. I don't remember now, but it was a very small amount, and couldn't be avoided.

Schools, hospitals and mosques were the headquarters of the terrorist Hamas groups, or just huge ammunition dumps.

IF the Arabs would accept the existence of the State of Israel, we wouldn't be having this discussion. But that is not in the interest of the world (the powers that be), and so many of the Arab muslims are not capable of accepting this. Especially now that they have been beaten by this small group of Jews. They have said repeatedly that the existence of Israel is an insult to the Arab man's sense of personal honor.

I am anonymous because I don't have a google account.

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