Thursday, June 24, 2010

Response to Anonymous # 356

I get many comments - both on the blog and to my personal email addresses. A few days ago, Anonymous (I called him Anonymous #356 to differentiate from other comments I have received from similar sounding people), wrote to me. There are many comments I don't put through. Yes, if you tell me "Liar! Israeli soldiers will go to hell" (that was Anonymous # 281), I won't put it through; and I won't approve Anonymous # 296's "All Israels should be killed wherever they are found and all Isreal city should be distroy from the Map of the World" either...and yes - please #296, could you learn to spell my country's name -I S R A E L...and while I'm at it - "distroy" is "destroy" and you really have to learn English rules for capitalization).

Where was I? Ah yes, Anonymous # 356, so # 356 was relatively polite and so I responded as a comment. Then he (or perhaps she...or perhaps someone else), wrote again with the following comment:
- Did the people on the ships have some sort of duty to allow armed men to attack them without resistance? You sound like the activists were terrorists on a mission to attack Israeli people. Nonsense. The main goal of the ship (full of activists) was to bring aid to Gaza, not to attack Israeli people! They were non-violent UNTIL the IDF special forces repelled onto the ship.
- Maybe you're right about the law, but I wonder what would Israel and Americans say if it was Iran (instead of Israel) attacking humanitarian ships (carrying aid) in International waters... Think about it.
- It seems you aren't aware of the fact that some commandos were actually CAPTURED and taken away by activists on the ship. So your words about "their training and dedication, one to the other" make no sense there. Look ta the facts: 3 or 4 commandos were captured (inspite of their training and dedication) and their weapons were taken away. Those who captured them could easily killed them if they have wanted. But they didn't. Maybe they aren't such "animals" or haters after all?
- Sorry, but you didn't change my mind about international probe. I'm sure North Korea has conducted its own probe into the sinking of a South Korean ship few weeks ago. But would you believe them? The same goes for Israel. The guilty will once again 'find' themselves innocent. What a farce!

Gaza flotilla raid was a great tragedy and IDF has the blood of 8 people on it's hands. At least Israel was forced to ease Gaza blockade, so I guess this is the only positive from this horrible story.

best regards

I started to respond as a comment, but well, yeah - I love to write and write a lot and so the Blog didn't accept my comment because it was too long - can you imagine? The nerve! And so I reprint it here. My response to a recent comment:

Dear Anonymous # 356...or is it #357?


You ask important questions and in a respectful way, though clearly there is anger in your tone...but I can understand that. I too am angry about the flotilla fiasco, though I assume your anger and mine are for different reasons. Let's talk about your anger first:

Your first point is so many points that it would take me one whole comment just to answer it…perhaps I should indeed switch this to a post rather than a comment, but let’s begin and see where it goes:

1. You ask if the people had some sort of duty to allow armed men to attack without resistance. Well, see, you are already starting off in the wrong direction because the first answer is that they were in the process of violating a declared naval blockade which in fact, according to that international law (which you admit I might be “right about”), Israel had FULL legal rights to stop the ship, detain the ship, and absolutely, use force. You yourself admit the soldiers were attacked and it is clear from the pictures and what was done to the soldiers that the force used against them was clearly “deadly force” – after all – several soldiers were shot…and they were shot by those thugs on the ships that grabbed the soldiers’ weapons, turned them and attacked the soldiers. Once they grabbed the soldiers guns – all bets were off. It became a battle between two armed camps. If I sound like I am saying that the “activists” were “terrorists on a mission to attack Israeli people” – I’m glad. That is exactly what I am saying. Glad I am clear. The videos show those so-called activists clearly preparing for battle. Taking ship railing and cutting it with those humanitarian aid drills and prepare their weapons in advance. As such, saying they were non-violent before the IDF landed on the ship is absurd. Of course they were non-violent in the sense that we assume they didn’t attack each other; but they were certainly violent in the fact that they were quite busy planning their attack. By your logic, we would say no one is violent…um…until they get violent.

2. No one attacked humanitarian ships because those ships , while indeed carrying aid, were not primarily dedicated to this concept. Had they been, they would have agreed to either Israel or Egypt’s offer to deliver the aid. No, they had a political purpose – to break the blockade…and they failed. The humanitarian aid was a guise, a cloud behind which they tried and failed to hide. Yes, I am right about the fact that Israel did NOT violate international law and so your comment, again, about international waters is not relevant here.

3. If the commandos were captured, that proves again, our right to use deadly force to get them back. No, I give no credit to the “mercy” of the captors and among those “activists” who were killed – are those who held our soldiers. So we have two clear rules for future flotillas:

a. If you grab a soldier’s gun – expect to get shot.

b. If you capture a soldier – expect to die.

As for their being animals…those are your words…or perhaps mine. Either way, the blood thirst in the way they beat the soldiers is there, clear, in the video.

4. I never expected to change your mind. The fact that you now admit that I am probably right about international law is enough for me. As for international probes…we’ll agree to disagree. My country regularly has inquiries and many are found wrong. We have already conducted investigations into the Gaza War and soldiers who violated army rules have been tried and sentenced. We are a nation of law and order. You believe it…you don’t…irrelevant. We have inquiries here because this is the nature of our country.

Finally – yes, the Gaza flotilla was a great tragedy…ah, you said the raid was a tragedy, didn’t you? Well, if you insist, I will say it is true – the behavior of the thugs on board was criminal and inhumane. The behavior of the soldiers was also completely inappropriate. They should not have attempted to rappel down, one by one – that was stupid. They should have simply sunk the ships from underneath and as the ships went down…they could have thrown the peace activists some cute rafts and perhaps some sun lotion. As for easing the blockade…yes, my country can be ever stupid in the face of international pressure.

Make no mistake – no good came out of the flotilla…not this one and not the next one to come upon us. The way to peace is not through terrorism, not through violence and not through flotillas that use humanitarian aid as an excuse. The way to peace was, is, and ever will be – talking.

8 comments:

Anonymous said...

Shalom again,
I hope you are well.

I am neither of the two anonymouses. ;-)

FYI: The soldiers that were captured were used as hostages, which is another violation of International Humanitarian Law.

Perhaps your anonymous would like to respond here to the content avaliable at the following website:
flotillafacts.blogspot.com

A Soldier's Mother said...

Hi...you don't mind if I call you Anonymous # 358, do you?

Thanks for your important points - and absolutely, thanks for the link to that site!

Much appreciated (even if I do have to call you Anonymous and use up one of my precious numbers...I think I am beginning to need an Excel sheet to keep track!).

Cheers,
Anonymous Blogger Me

Anonymous said...

I'm Anonymous #356 & 357 and here are my answers.

1. I disagree. If the main goal of those people/activists/idiots/thugs really was to attack Israeli people they had so many better ways to do it than to be on a ship carrying aid to Gaza, don't you think so? If Israeli commandos hadn't attacked them and let them in Gaza (or at least told them they'll only let their aid into Gaza) they would be no violence.
Wanna know what's my logic? Let's say I had a burglar at my house once. I threw a book at him, he shot me. He said it was self-defense. Guess he was right... I hope you see my point. IDF commandos boarded the ship as if it were an armed military vessel (which it clearly was NOT) and killed 8 people (including young American citizen). That's why I believe IDF has the blood of those people on it's hands.

2. I won't say there was no political purpose (to break the blockade), because they cleary wanted the world to discuss the blockade again. They wanted to help Gazans and I appreciate that. I don't approve their violence, though - except if it was a self-defence. That's why I think we need international probe. You also said they failed. I'd say they didn't fail completely - Israel was forced to ease the blockade, wasn't it?

3. I read somewhere (see the link below) that: "One Israeli soldier, armed with a large automatic gun and a side pistol, was overpowered by several passengers. They disarmed him. They did not use his weapons or fire them; instead they threw his weapons over board and into the sea." - Again, they could have shot him, but they didn't.

Here's the link to full article: http://blogs.aljazeera.net/middle-east/2010/06/06/kidnapped-israel-forsaken-britain

I know it's from Al Jazeera and you'll probably not like it, but if you have 5 minutes I suggest you to read it and hear the other side of the story (you probably won't find in Israeli newspapers).

4. Ok, so you're sceptical about international probe. I don't live in Israel. Tell me, who can assure that Israel will (or is capable of) conduct an honest and fair investigation? BTW, I'm glad that those soldiers (from Operation Cast Lead) who violated army rules have been tried and sentenced - it only proved my thought about "moral army". Anyway, where was I? Of yes, the probe. Here's what I think: if Israel wants to go it alone, as fair as the investigation may be, it will be still difficult to sell to the international community (and especially to arab world). And that's not good for Israel.

I'm glad I can agree with your conclusion (The way to peace is not through terrorism, not through violence and not through flotillas that use humanitarian aid as an excuse. The way to peace was, is, and ever will be – talking). Perhaps I should add that the way to peace is also not through collective punishments, blockades, not through violence and not through stealing land with building illegal (I know you'd disagree here) settlements and wall (that use self-defence as an excuse). I know you'll probably not agree with my terminology, but hope you'll at least agree with my point.

regards,

# 356

brat said...

Do I need to take a number now? ;)

# 356, the video evidence CLEARLY shows who the aggressor was in this latest incident: the "peace activists."

The video evidence also CLEARLY shows that the Israelis talked to the "peace flotilla" for some time before any boarding was made.

The FACT that 5 out of the 6 boats were let into port with no incident lends credibility to the Israelis' claims. Oh and did you see the videos of all the "peace tools" I guess you would call them, that became lethal weapons?

Maybe not, if Al Jazeera is your only source of 'news.'

When trying to debate, it helps to read more than one source.

One last point (since I really don't want to take over this thread..lol)IF the Gazans are so hard done by, and so in need of aid and tools etc, why haven't they used Egypt all this time? I gather that would be an option for getting "peace aid" into Gaza. Hmmmmmmmmm..Then they wouldn't be having to confront and demonise Israel, would they? and that IS their point.

You might also want to research, as I have, exactly WHO is behind these 'peace flotillas' and who funds them. You might be surprised.

A Soldier's Mother said...

Hey Anonymous #356 -

I'm taking a break for the Jewish Sabbath and will respond early next week. I am enjoying this dialog because it is a dialog - a discussion. I doubt either of us will change the other's mind...but in the talking, there is a level of understanding. I appreciate your thoughtful response and though I believe there is much that is inaccurate - I appreciate the tone of your discussion and the lack of curse words and nasty comments.

With that - I'll be back next week. One more post I want to make...I hope you'll take the time to see it. It's a YouTube video of my son's swearing-in ceremony at the Western Wall. What too many fail to understand, is that these "commandos" are our sons, human beings. The flotilla was a fiasco...but mainly because the commandos were not aware of the violence that was being prepared for them. They thought...really...that they were going to meet peace activists who would yell and scream - perhaps push and shove...and then allow them to be taken to Ashdod, unloaded, etc. - all that was done in the end, and the aid taken to Gaza.

What was not known - was that Hamas would take the little aid there was and shove it into warehouses and not even deliver it (after all, there is no humanitarian crisis in Gaza, as we've been saying all along and no critical need for any of the things on the flotilla)...and, they did not know they would be met with such violence. They chose their weapons based on the information they had...and so didn't go with M16s but paintball guns. They didn't go to kill - this is a top unit. If death was their goal, a heck of a lot more would have died. There was no sniper on the helicopter covering their entry...

Beyond that, there was even discussion about which uniforms to wear - at one point, they even talked of going in the "dress" uniforms they use off base when meeting the public or traveling.

Anyway - this is all for next week. For now, I take a break. Shabbat shalom - may the Sabbath come in peace.

Anonymous said...

brat, do you think it's normal for commandos to board a ship carrying aid as if it were an armed military vessel? Did you expect activists to greet them with hugs and pats on the shoulders? I'm not sure about those paint-ball guns and non-violent commandos, because there're so many different reports and opinions about that. If you read that article from Al Jazeera you could read this: /"Commandos on board the choppers joined the firing, using live ammunition, before any of the soldiers had descended onto the ship. Two unarmed civilians were killed just metres away from me. Dozens of unarmed civilians were injured right before my eyes."/ There were also suggestions that Israeli soldiers refused to allow them treatment of critically injured activists. Now, I'm not saying this is all truth, but I can't prove it's not, either. BTW, who said I only read one source? I know Al jazeera is not the most fair and unbiased news source, but so is not the Israeli army. We need a fair international probe to find the truth. That's my opinion.

Yes I saw those videos of all the "peace tools" and my opinion is that if those people really were on a mission to kill Israelis then they would have been better armed. I mean, would you attack an armed commando with a knife and sack of onions if you could choose your weapons? I do agree that the commandos were truly not prepared to face violence of this nature, though.

Why haven't they used Egypt all this time? Perhaps because they wanted to end Israeli blockade. They wanted the world to discuss it, they wanted Israel to reconsider the blockade.

To Soldier's Mother: I'm glad you're enjoying this dialogue as much as I do. It's not my style to use curse words. I appreciate the tone of your discussion too, because I know many people would be ready to call me anti-semite or hamas-supporter as soon I'd start to criticize any Israel's action. Like you said, in the talking, there is a level of understanding. I always say, what's wrong with people having different opinions? I respect your opinions, you respect mine and that's it. Sure, I'll take a look at the video of your son's swearing-in ceremony. Enjoy your Sabbath!

# 356

Steven said...

You may of course call me Anonymous # 358, but you can also call me Steven.

I just liked all the talk of Anonymity and decided to join in the fun. :-)

etty said...

Haha, Paula you are really funny!
I see that in addition to being a political commentator, you cannot resist chiming in as a technical writer and editor!
May your soldiers have a good and safe sherut.
Etty

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